The Distractables - your ADHD friends

Marie: 00:04

Hello. Welcome to the distractibles, where we come together to chat about our ADHD journey as well as practical ADHD tips, tricks and hacks to get through daily life. I'm your co host, Marie. I'm also the founder of Llama Life, an app to help people with ADHD with tasks and routines.

Jesse: 00:21

And I'm Jesse j Anderson, the author of Extra Focus, the Quick Start Guide to Adult ADHD.

Marie: 00:27

And we're here with our mutual friend today, Trina Haines. Many people probably already know Trina. She's the founder of My Lady ADHD and a creator of lots of social media content about ADHD as well. And recently, she's also joined Shimmer, an ADHD coaching platform. Patrina, thank you so much for joining us.

Trina: 00:50

Yeah. I'm super happy to be here. You're 2 of my favorite people. So thanks for the invite. Aw.

Jesse: 00:55

Awesome. You're one of our favorite people too.

Marie: 00:58

Yeah. I know. We've been so looking forward to this podcast, this episode. We were like, oh my gosh, it's gonna be so fun because we talk to you on your podcast and vice versa. And but we've never had the 3 of us together and yeah.

Marie: 01:11

It's gonna be yeah. It's a family everybody. Yeah. And today, we're gonna talk about a pretty hot topic for people with ADHD. We're gonna talk a bit about burnout.

Marie: 01:21

And I've been through burnout myself. And, Trina, I know you've been through burnout several times. Jesse, have you?

Jesse: 01:28

Oh, definitely. Yeah. I feel like I'm constantly trying to keep the burnout at bay because it feels like it's always just, like, right around the corner, ready to ready to strike. So I'm constantly cause I'm always like, I'm really excited about stuff. And so I try to I call it like juggling chainsaws.

Jesse: 01:43

I'm trying to add more things to do, knowing that if it ever gets a little bit too slow, I'm just gonna drop everything and just like crash, and then everything will fall apart. So it's this tricky balance of keeping myself, I don't know, entertained or energized and interested in all the things I'm doing versus getting overwhelmed and then everything crashing and burning.

Trina: 02:04

That is the balance, isn't it? Yeah. So I always say I didn't know anything about ADHD burnout, a couple years ago. Actually, I'm pretty new to ADHD myself, just been diagnosed a few years ago. But somebody online mentioned burnout and ADHD burnout specifically.

Trina: 02:21

And I was like, what is this? So I googled it. And I I think I've told you this before, Jesse, because this is it's so striking to me when I read the definition online how much I resonated with it, and I think others can also resonate with it. So I'm gonna read the definition of ADHD burnout that I read a couple years ago that stopped me in my tracks. And basically was, ADHD burnout is the cycle of overcommitting and overextending that leads to fatigue in people with ADHD.

Trina: 02:49

It involves taking on too many tasks and commitments and then the subsequent exhaustion that happens when we're unable to fulfill all of our obligations.

Marie: 03:01

Ow. Try face rolling.

Trina: 03:04

I when I read that a few years ago, like, it was like sticking a knife into my heart because that is the cycle that I feel like I'm perpetually in ever since I was a teenager. I resonate more with burnout than with any other piece of ADHD, personally. It's something that I experience, like, viscerally. So I do talk about it a lot because I don't think that people do. I just found out about it a few years ago, and I think there are ways to combat it that need to be talked about.

Trina: 03:34

So that's why I'm here.

Marie: 03:37

Yeah. And and as you read the definition, I was just thinking, like, people with without ADHD obviously go through burnout as well. But when you read that definition, there's so many things there that people with ADHD just so much more susceptible to it, that over commitment, like having multiple projects and just wanting to do too many things. Like, it's just to the extreme. And I've definitely gone through this as well where I'm like, I want to take all this stuff on.

Marie: 03:58

And then there's also the guilt that you feel when you can't do it. And it's guilt for me. It's like guilt to myself, but it's also guilt if I'm letting someone else down, if I've committed to doing something with somebody else or promise to help somebody else. And then I'm like, Oh my God, I can't do it. And it's almost extreme where it's like on or off.

Marie: 04:20

It's like suddenly I just I can't even half do it. I'm just like, I can't do it.

Trina: 04:25

Yeah. It's like when you get to that burnout point, you feel like you need to cancel everything.

Marie: 04:30

Yeah.

Trina: 04:30

And start from scratch sometimes. It's interesting that you said that because there is a statistic out there that says that up to 93 percent of adults with ADHD experience burnout, which is 5 times higher than the general population, which is about 30%. So there are statistics to back up that people with ADHD experience burnout symptoms more frequently than, like, maybe neurotypical people do.

Jesse: 04:57

Mhmm.

Trina: 04:57

So it's very common.

Jesse: 04:58

Yep. It it makes me think some of the stuff you were saying, Marie, makes me think of well, we were talking about jobs in another episode, and I feel like a lot of times people with ADHD end up overcompensating, trying to make up for, Oh, I felt like I didn't do anything today, so I'm gonna work late, or I'm gonna work overnight or on the weekends. And, like, I'm trying to make up because I don't really have a good idea of the scale of work that I'm doing, because sometimes I'll hyper focus and I'll get a ton done, but it's hard to understand, like, the different rhythms of work. And so when I go 2 or 3 days where I don't feel like a lot of work is getting done, especially earlier in my career at different jobs, I was always overcompensating. So I was probably doing way more work than a lot of my peers, and that was leading to that burnout in that time because I just felt like I could never catch up to this impossible standard that didn't that didn't never really seem compatible with the way that I worked.

Marie: 05:58

Yeah. You just oh my gosh. So you I just had this a bit of a light bulb moment when you said that, like, for me, a lot of this is probably related to time blindness as well because I did exactly I do exactly what you do. Like I have I don't really work very steadily. It's like peaks and troughs and like suddenly in it or I'm not in it.

Marie: 06:15

And I do work late because I get to the end of the day and I think I don't know how much I've done. Like, I don't have that time sense of have I actually put in enough time and effort in the day and I'll work late and then I go to bed late and I just, it just starts this really bad cycle. And then I get up in the morning and I'm too tired and therefore I feel like I'm not getting enough done. Then I stay late and it goes around and around. And then, yeah, at some point your body's just not can't do it.

Jesse: 06:42

Yeah. And that the sleep deprivation, like, that makes basically, you take, like, a list of ADHD symptoms and you compare it to the list of symptoms you get with lack of sleep. And it's the same list. And so it just pounds on top of each other, where any issues you were having before with ADHD at work, they're just gonna get worse and worse because of those, that kind of sleep deprivation issue, which I definitely faced a lot of that and still do at times, for sure.

Marie: 07:10

Trina, do you go to bed late?

Trina: 07:12

Yeah. I go to bed irregularly. Like, it's I generally am a night owl, but there's no specific bedtime. I get energy at weird times of day, and I do work very late in the evening. Generally, the mornings are slower pace for me, and it takes a while to get going.

Trina: 07:29

And yeah. I I don't know. But I also don't feel like I require a lot of sleep. I probably do. I feel like a sleep specialist would tell me otherwise, but I just always feel like I only need 4, 5 hours, and I'm good for a while.

Trina: 07:42

But I don't know. So I probably would function a lot better with more sleep. I just

Marie: 07:46

Mhmm.

Trina: 07:47

Don't get that much sleep. So I'm having to just go without most of the time.

Marie: 07:52

Do you drink, like, a lot of coffee or energy drinks or anything?

Trina: 07:57

No. I'm super sensitive to caffeine. Like, I am one of those people. Yeah. I can't do caffeine.

Trina: 08:03

I can't do alcohol. Like, it all affects me pretty rough.

Jesse: 08:07

I, drink 6 coffees a day.

Trina: 08:09

Yes. So

Marie: 08:10

That is crazy. I think I would be dead. Like, I I'm so sensitive to what I I drink 1 a day, sometimes 2, but I drink it very slowly, and I feel like it's almost like a drip. I'm picturing, like, just take a few sips and I'm trying to keep myself at a certain level. So I don't, like, lose focus.

Trina: 08:28

I do the same thing maybe with chocolate, like dark chocolate. I feel like it's it has caffeine in it a little bit. And so I feel like I'm just constantly like

Marie: 08:37

an excuse to each other. Come on.

Trina: 08:42

Hey. You gotta do what you gotta do. But, yeah, what you were talking about earlier with ADHD at the workplace and maybe biting off more than you can chew or maybe feeling like at the end of the day that you didn't accomplish anything. And I think a lot of burnout does come back to capacity and knowing your capacity and honoring that capacity and being really aware of your capacity.

Jesse: 09:03

I've heard in several different places talking about productivity or things like that, the idea of having enough margin in your life so there's space between your commitments and the available times of that. And whenever I hear that message, I'm like, that just doesn't make any sense to me. I I want it to make sense, but the idea of having margin just and I don't know if this is ADHD or if it's just me, but I just feel like I don't know how to have margin. If there's margin, then I'm gonna fill it with something. I I don't know how to have this space that's not filled with something.

Jesse: 09:38

Because, again, if I have imaginary time units, if I have a 3 hour time block and I'm only doing have an hour commitment in there, then that hour commitment isn't gonna get done either. Everything's just gonna fall apart because it's not interesting enough to engage me. And so

Marie: 09:54

Urgency is not there or

Jesse: 09:55

Yeah. I'm sure, because that's part of it. There's no urgency. There's no pressure. There's no, like, excitement.

Jesse: 10:00

It's just, ugh. It's the idea of, like, eating the frog first, which is terrible productivity advice for people with ADHD. Mhmm. But it's that idea of if I do something first, like, eating the ice cream, if I do something first that's exciting and gets my motivation going, then I can tackle that more difficult task. But if I try the opposite, then it's nothing's gonna get done.

Jesse: 10:21

I'm just, like, slowed. It's like the inertia. It's I can't get myself going. And that's what I feel with this margin gap. If I got myself going, like, I'm doing stuff, then I need to keep doing stuff or it's all gonna fall apart, and then I'm gonna lose the interest and the availability or the urgency, whatever that sort of, like, magical, brain energy is to keep going and be able to get stuff done.

Trina: 10:46

Yeah. I think when I think of, like, capacity, I think of looking at your calendar coming up and noticing, like, the things on your calendar maybe on a Wednesday that are draining you, like, that these are gonna be really draining meetings, maybe cushioning them with less intense tasks around it. But something you're interested in, but maybe you're not gonna design a whole website before you get on that really stressful call. Maybe it's a lighter workday just like really looking at your days and like how does this work drain me and for how many hours? Just being really aware of your schedule and if it looks crazy maybe move something to a different day so that you give yourself some of that flexibility because I think you also have to allow for the chaos in some degree.

Trina: 11:32

And if you have back to back to back calls, like, you're not giving yourself that room to dawdle around. You're not giving yourself the ADHD time to build up to the task, come down from the task. There is, like, a build up transition time that you need ahead and the one that you need after. And if you're not allowing that in your schedule, I think that is, like, a small tweak that can help prevent burnout is just like really looking at your schedule In a way where you're looking at capacity and your energy in a different way That's how I look at it. I'm still trying to it's not a perfect system and I want to say that it's not I don't live without burnout, but I feel like there's different ways to like look at what you're doing every day.

Trina: 12:16

And is it killing you? Or is it bringing you energy and exciting you because there is a difference?

Marie: 12:24

Oh, yeah, definitely. I love what you just said. I try and do this as well, and it might be slightly more easy for me to do it because I have my own business. So I have a lot more control around when I'm scheduling things, what days, what time. And just as an example, this week, we've got 2 podcasts recordings.

Marie: 12:46

So today and then tomorrow. And then somebody on my team was saying, hey, do you want to do another one on Friday? And I was like, I don't think I can because it, it does take some energy to do it. And I do need that sort of decompression after. So Friday I'll probably do something that's a little more quiet.

Marie: 13:04

Maybe I'll do some coding and just not have many meetings. So that's like scheduling days of the week. But I also do this thing where I only have meetings in the morning. I really try to only schedule meetings in the morning because if I have them throughout my day, that kind of just breaks it up and drains me a bit as well. So there's a number of meetings.

Marie: 13:23

I'll say, okay, only just a few meetings and try and do them between 9 AM and 12, but that's because I have more control. And if I was working for somebody else or in a larger corporate environment, that might be harder. Do you have any tips for someone working for someone else? Like what they could do to protect protect themselves?

Trina: 13:41

Yeah. That's a good point because I also work remotely for myself. I have a lot of flexibility with my schedule. I will say that there are things that you can think about. Okay.

Trina: 13:51

What are you doing for yourself if you have 30 minutes today of free time? Are you scrolling during that 30 minutes, or do you need to just sit quietly for 30 minutes by yourself? Do you need to read a book? Like, really making sure that you're adding in self care because I know that's something that we struggle with, and we're constantly moving and going, and we don't always remember to brush our teeth or shower or get our hair cut or take care of the self care. And that's a super important piece of burnout prevention is just really being mindful of taking care of yourself.

Trina: 14:23

I think you can even do that in a traditional work environment if you can squeeze in 10 minutes of quiet time. Like, even that's a win.

Marie: 14:33

So if you ever just come to the bathroom at sometimes I just go when I was working at corporate, I just go to the bathroom. I just disappear. I'm not really doing anything in the bathroom, but I'm like, I just need to go away and not do it. No one can see where I am and just don't contact me.

Trina: 14:47

Oh, I was a super wanderer when I was in office. I was hardly at my desk. I could not sit at my desk. I was out. I was talking to everybody.

Trina: 14:55

I was a huge distraction in the office, to be honest with you. Yep.

Marie: 15:01

Same. What are you gonna

Jesse: 15:04

do? Yeah. I would definitely, when I was working more in an office or something like that, finding the little excuses to move about or sometimes I worked in places where there were multiple workstations and that was great because then I could just move. But earlier in my career, I remember being at a job that was in the office. I had a desk and that's where the computer was, and that was my spot.

Jesse: 15:26

And so I would just invent reasons to, oh, I I need to go talk to this person because maybe I have a single question I thought of about this project. And that gives me an excuse to just move from being stuck in here and just feeling like I'm getting antsy and getting I gotta move. I gotta do something. I cannot just sit here.

Marie: 15:45

Yeah. I didn't think about it until you just said it. But that transition from having just a computer to having a laptop is huge because

Jesse: 15:54

Huge. Yeah.

Marie: 15:54

Huge. Because I'm the same. I was I used to go I'm just always around the office taking my laptop. I'll go work in the kitchen. I'll go work in a conference room.

Marie: 16:01

I'll just go work some random spot or I'd get up and go get a coffee and get disrupts basically. But they need people like that because It's

Trina: 16:11

so hard, though, because I've learned for myself, like, the more that I get up from my desk and wander around or go whatever, there's transition time that I need to get back to my desk. Okay. What was I doing? What was I working on? What do I do for a living?

Trina: 16:26

And then there's time there that I'm losing too. So every time I'm pulled away, which is probably normal for everyone, but the transition time to get back to where you were is really difficult. So eliminating those, for me, as much as possible is key to having really solid chunks of focus time. Where my phone is away. I'm really focused is really helpful for me, but it might not be like that for everyone.

Marie: 16:53

So do you schedule the transition time in as well?

Trina: 16:56

I just allow wiggle room on my schedule. I allow for extra cushy time because I when I look at ADHDers, I know that we're doing way more than we think we are. Like, every one of us is doing so we're overcompensating, and we're doing the work of 2 people. So I just try to keep that in the back of my mind. I know that I'm I know that I'm doing a lot.

Trina: 17:19

Like, there's no way that I'm not doing a lot. So I've tried to be more, I guess, just forgiving with the the time that I have, and no one's complaining about the work that I'm doing. I try to remind myself I have a job that it's working and everything's going, and I just try to motivate myself and keep my spirits high and not try to beat myself up as much as I used to because I really do think we're all doing a lot.

Marie: 17:48

Yeah. I wonder if it's something where we're thinking that other people aren't seeing it the same way. Like, maybe we're feeling sort of the guilt so that we're not doing as much, but maybe all the people, like, actually, she's doing great. Still delivering everything that she said she was gonna do.

Trina: 18:03

But we get so many negative messages. Right? So that's it is hard because you get critiqued for maybe how you do something. It might not be that or maybe you did forget something. And I feel like that's always in the back of our mind of feeling I always feel like I forgot something.

Trina: 18:17

Like, that just sits there in my brain.

Jesse: 18:19

I'm curious. What are some warning signs? Because I feel like a lot of times, it's burnout. Like I said, I feel like I'm keeping it at bay, but then when it hits it, it it does feel like it's out of nowhere. And then it's, oh, it's too late.

Jesse: 18:29

Like, it I hit it hard, and now there's no escaping. I'm just in it now. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on warning signs or what?

Trina: 18:37

So what it can look like and what you'll start to notice, and pretty much everyone that's listening to this probably can relate. So you'll get, like, the extreme fatigue or exhaustion, but it can be physical and mental. You could just maybe feel really overwhelmed. Increased difficulty managing your ADHD symptoms. So maybe you usually have a good grasp on your routine in the morning or whatever, but you might certainly see that start to slip away.

Trina: 19:03

The stuff that you really feel like you have a good grasp on might just not be as easy as it normally is. Maybe heightened emotional state, emotionally sensitive or irritable, just like a real inability to complete tasks. And I know that's always, like, a struggle for us, but maybe more noticeable than normal. And then maybe just increased anxiety, which to me sounds sounds like ADHD. But yeah.

Trina: 19:31

And then for a lot of people too, we'll get a lot of physical symptoms. So I know for me, when I reach burnout, I'm sick, and I'm down for 2 weeks. Like, once I hit that point and it's like clockwork. If I have a lot of stuff on my calendar, like a lot of travel or just like a really heavy calendar, a lot of family events, a lot of in person stuff, then I'll feel it coming. I'll be like, okay.

Trina: 19:53

I'm really overwhelmed. I haven't haven't been keeping up with my journal that's really important to me that I'm pretty good at keeping up with. I noticed those kinds of things, and then I'm out for 2 weeks. I pretty much will be bedridden for a week or 2. That's not it could be headaches.

Trina: 20:12

Yeah.

Marie: 20:12

Do you track these things? So you mentioned a couple of these sort of warning signs about being sick and then not getting tasks done or your normal routines. But how do you know that you're off? Are you actually tracking it, let's say, in the journal? Or is it just like a feeling suddenly go, oh, I'm really not feeling it?

Trina: 20:28

This is super interesting because I am getting better at this, but I've started to do, like, a monthly look back at the last month and then a look ahead of okay. What's coming up on my calendar? And, like, this is scheduled in every month now. Okay. We're gonna look at what just happened, and we're gonna look at what's coming.

Trina: 20:46

And, usually, when I get to that point and I look at what's coming, I can see indicators of, okay, this is a really busy month. It's close to the holidays. This is when I usually get sick. I usually get the flu in November. Let's think about that.

Trina: 21:01

Maybe I need extra self care this month. I need to make extra effort to maybe have some no meeting days on my calendar if I can swing that. Maybe take a day off. Shocker. Maybe I could actually take a day off here or there.

Trina: 21:15

But, yeah, I think it's that dedicated time to look back at what just happened and look at what's coming, and then you can start to, oh, yeah. Okay. This is what's going on in my life. Because I think we have a tendency to not looking ahead or backwards. So, like, you have to set that in your calendar and make time for that.

Trina: 21:32

Make it a ritual. Make it, like, a fun once a month, I'm gonna go sit by myself in a cafe and work on this. This is something that I need to do. That's been helping me a lot, and that's something that my ADHD coach has been helping me with, figuring that what that looks like. But, yeah, I do feel like I've made strides in the last few months with burnout because I can see it coming now, and I can, like, actively prevent it.

Trina: 21:58

So

Jesse: 21:58

Yeah. That's super interesting. I I feel like people with ADHD really struggle a lot with hindsight and foresight. It's like we're very much locked into the present. And so it's really easy to like, I can have a revelation about something about my own, I don't know, work or what, productivity or something like that.

Jesse: 22:16

And then a week later, I forgot that I had that, and I'm still back to my old habits, and I forget to even consider that I had this really great idea. I often joke, like, the strategies and stuff I talk about in my book or my newsletter, I'm like, take my advice. I'm not using it because at some point it worked and it was a great idea, and then I just forgot about it. It just fell into the past where I don't remember to look anymore. And yet, like, it really what you're talking about with kind of that month review and preview looking forward and backward is a lot of what I do.

Jesse: 22:47

I do I like to do, like, an annual personal retreat.

Trina: 22:51

Okay. So this is I this started with you because you did the quarterly or maybe it was like an annual review.

Jesse: 22:58

It was an annual. Yeah.

Trina: 22:59

Mhmm. And it was really in-depth, and I really took a lot out of that. And then but I felt like I still needed I need extra care in that department. So I felt like it needed to be more often just because the way time is in my mind, like, it needed to be more relevant. And honestly, it's helping me, like, okay, what are my goals?

Trina: 23:19

Because you just go and go. Wait. What am I doing all of this for? What is the next step? What am I doing here?

Trina: 23:24

I'm just, like, on a hamster wheel unless I stop and get off the hamster wheel and look around the cage. That's the only way I can describe it. I feel like that's really hard to do with someone with ADHD unless it's very deliberate. It doesn't come natural to us to do that, in my opinion.

Marie: 23:43

No. I definitely agree. If you when I'm on the hamster wheel, there's a reason. The reason I'm still on the wheel is because it's somehow giving me dopamine, and I don't want to stop because whatever I'm doing is feeding something. And so I don't want to I don't want to stop and get off it and take a break and look around.

Marie: 24:01

But I like the sort of check-in thing, the annual thing that you said. I used to do that. You reminding me that I need to get back to it. I used to do weekly. I used to do like weekly, monthly, and annual.

Marie: 24:14

And it sounds like a lot, but you don't have to spend heaps of time. Like the weekly can be very quick annual. You'll spend more time on. And I also used to use this mood tracking app, which I haven't for ages, and I really should get back to that as well. I used to, like, once a day, just put in my mood on a scale of there were, like, 5 icons, and it will graph over time what's happening.

Marie: 24:35

And you can really see when you're starting to decline. It's just red. And that's when you can maybe pull back and go, all right, I need to give myself more cushion and. I can see that being helpful. Yeah.

Jesse: 24:48

And if you did that long term as well, like Trini was saying earlier, you could maybe notice, like, seasonal trends because that's something that I'm sure I have certain annual patterns of, like, certain times a year. And but I don't know what they are. I wish I did.

Trina: 25:05

Tell you right now, they're October, November, December for the ADHD crew because we have in those of us who are in this space is ADHD awareness month is in October. That's usually, like, a lot of that's a busy time of year for us. And then November, we go to the conference, and then there's the holidays right after that, and then there's even more holidays. And Mhmm. Really, most of us will probably be in bed in January because we'll be suffering from all of that.

Trina: 25:35

So I do think yeah. Having a mood tracker makes sense because one of the things that is, like, an indicator is the irritability and, like, being more moody. I guess you could probably spot it yourself using that.

Marie: 25:49

Yeah. Mhmm. And and definitely with the mood tracker, I have a tip about that because because I was doing it for several years before I just suddenly dropped off, and it was really cool because you could see patterns. But when I first started doing the mood tracking, I would track several times a day. Like, I'd be like, okay.

Marie: 26:04

Oh, how am I feeling now? And or if I if I had something happen like an event, then I'd be like, oh, I feel angry and I'd put it in. But that's the wrong way to do it because it's not consistent. So some days I'd put in 5 entries and another day I'd put in 3, and another day I'd put in 1. And when you're looking at averages, it gets all messed up.

Marie: 26:23

So a day where you put in 3 entries and maybe one is, like, super positive, one super negative, and one's in the middle. The average is just gonna be in the middle. And so I figured out, like, the better way to do it is just once a day. Like you, you reflect at the end of the day, how would I rate today? And you put in one entry and then it's consistent.

Marie: 26:43

That

Trina: 26:44

makes sense.

Marie: 26:45

And also, like, you can keep up with it because when I was doing multiple, like, I just forget and then some days, yeah, more than others. But if I just do one a day and there's a notification and it's the end of the day, I'll just be like, okay, it just can take me one second and I'll do it. And then I started to get some really good trends because before they were just all averaging out, like, I'd be going up and down and up and down and then, oh, you had an average day. I'm like, that doesn't help me. And, yeah, so just do it once a day.

Marie: 27:10

It would be my big tip on any sort of data sort of entry thing that you're you're tracking. I would

Jesse: 27:16

be so

Trina: 27:17

proud of myself if I could do that once a day. That would be such a win.

Jesse: 27:21

I was gonna say what I would probably end up doing because it's my nature is optimize it all, figure out this crazy elaborate system, and then use it for 3 days and then never touch it again.

Marie: 27:32

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I used to do my iPad, but approach.

Trina: 27:36

Jesse, we've talked about this. If it worked for 3 days, that's 3 days it worked for.

Marie: 27:40

But it took 3 days to work it out. Yeah.

Jesse: 27:43

Yeah. I worked on it for 3 weeks. There's a problem.

Trina: 27:46

You didn't mention that. Yeah.

Jesse: 27:49

So how about tips when you're in it? Like, it's too late. Tracking isn't gonna help anymore. You're in it. You're in that burnout.

Jesse: 27:57

I'm sure there's a lot of, like, connection with depression because I've gone through that before and it feels really similar where it's hard to find that energy, that life to get back into a rhythm again. And, so, yeah, I'd love to hear any sort of thoughts or tips on getting out of burnout.

Trina: 28:15

That so that's really, important. I think it's a really important time to look at what you've reintroduced back into your life once you've crashed with burnout. Right? So if you're in bed and you're, like, okay, what is causing me stress in my life right now? Which things are overwhelming me?

Trina: 28:33

Which things are bringing me joy? And I think while you're in burnout, it is a good time to really look at what do you wanna bring back into this when you get out of burnout. Like, how do you how do you prevent this the next time? And I feel like every time you go through burnout, you get a little bit better, like, preventing it. So you're taking a little bit better care of yourself.

Trina: 28:53

That's the goal. Right? Is maybe let's lessen burnout next time. Let's not be in it as long. Let's not be in it as intensely.

Trina: 29:00

Maybe there's a way to prevent this. And I know you guys are both friends with Meredith Carter. She just has a book that just came out, but I remember she said something that kind of struck me that her number one goal with her career, with her family, with everything is burnout prevention. That is above all in her mind. That is her focus is, like, how can I prevent burnout?

Trina: 29:23

And I do think that has to be that way for some of us. The ones of us that are in this cycle perpetually, you really have to look at it like, how do I prevent this? Like, how do I make my life easier? How do I make it less stressful? How do I enjoy it more?

Trina: 29:36

I think that's really important to think about. A lot of soul searching.

Jesse: 29:42

I was just gonna say that reminds me of when I first learned about the rejection sensitivity, or some people call it the rejection sensitivity, or some people call it the rejection sensitive dysphoria. And before it was something I experienced all throughout my life where I would have those like bursts of anger and not know how to cope with it or whatever, and then I would explode or whatever the situation would happen. And then I'd look back and be like, that was terrible. That sucked. But I wouldn't learn anything from it.

Jesse: 30:11

And then once I learned about, oh, this is a thing that happens for people with ADHD, it it was like it gave me this new lens to look at it. So then after that, when whenever those events would happen, I could look back and then see where was the moment that this that triggered? Like, what triggered it? What could I have done differently? I almost became, like, a student of myself of now that I know that this is a thing, I can evaluate it.

Jesse: 30:38

And sometimes even in the moment, I could be like, oh, this is that thing. I still feel really angry. I can't make that go away. Mhmm. But I can recognize that this is that thing that I read about that called RSD.

Jesse: 30:50

And now what can I do with it now that I know that? And it's similar to what you're saying with burnout of recognizing, hey. What did lead to it this time? And maybe I can catalog that or write that down or journal about that or whatever it is and explore that self discovery of what could prevent this next time and what could I do about it going forward.

Trina: 31:10

Yeah. I feel like I'm really lucky because I got into journaling at a young age and I journal all the time. And so I can actually look back through my journals and see when last November, it was also chaos. And, oh, wait, the November before that. Wow, that was chaos too.

Trina: 31:26

But, yeah, there's something also to be said for journaling, if that's what somebody is interested in doing. Because I think when you write it out, you're definitely just more aware. I feel like it's all about awareness and self awareness and, like I said, capacity and knowing what's ahead and taking time to know what's ahead so that you can prepare yourself. Because I feel like we're just out here wild wild west just every day trying to, like, get through it, but we don't really stop and look around, and that's a huge part of preventing it. But also when you're in burnout, it is it it needs to always be, like, how can I prevent this next time?

Trina: 32:01

Like, how can I what can I do to not have this not feel this way again, which is it's easier said than done? It's something you really have to work out. Sleep is important. Eating right is important. Exercise is important.

Trina: 32:15

All those are difficult for a lot of people with ADHD to keep up with.

Marie: 32:21

Mhmm.

Trina: 32:22

Yeah. It makes sense. It definitely makes sense why we're always burnout. Like, you can see it. It's clear.

Trina: 32:28

Mhmm. I

Marie: 32:29

love the self awareness angle. I feel like so much of ADHD and managing it is being self aware and trying to figure out what's triggering you on different things and how you're feeling and actually reacting to it. And I like what you said to Jesse about sort of the knowledge that there is this thing, like, for example, RSD, like knowing just knowing is really powerful. Like there is a thing and it's not just you reacting in a weird way for that particular day or incident. It's actually, this is how my body reacts sometimes, and it's not it's quite common.

Marie: 33:02

Mhmm.

Trina: 33:03

Yeah. Just having a name to it. That's what I said. Like, when I found it a couple of years ago, I just found ADHD burnout, like the definition

Marie: 33:10

blew

Trina: 33:10

my mind and now I'm aware of it. Now I'm trying to prevent it actively. So instead of just being in this cycle perpetually, I'd actually like to not be in this cycle perpetually. That would be great. That's a good goal, and I feel that's a really important goal for me.

Trina: 33:25

I don't wanna be out for 2 weeks every 3 months. It's not sustainable. It's hard to keep up with your routines when you're down for 2 weeks. Let's say I was, like, exercising every day for 3 months, and I was doing so good, and then I'm burned out, and I'm in bed for 2 weeks. That throws everything into a tizzy.

Trina: 33:41

My whole routine is out of whack, and I don't wanna be doing that over and over again, and I'm trying really hard not to. And I've learned a lot from people like Meredith Carter, who's that's her goal is to just stay out of burnout. And I think

Marie: 33:53

I love that. Meredith is actually coming on to the the podcast in I'm not sure if it's next episode or or when, but she's definitely gonna be coming on to to talk about some stuff too.

Trina: 34:03

Yeah. I look up to her because I feel like she inspired me. Okay. I don't really have to live this way. I can try different techniques and a lot of it I am I don't wanna say this because it might come out wrong, but I don't a lot of it I am doing to myself in some degree.

Trina: 34:17

Like, I'm signing up for too many things or there's reasons behind it that maybe I can change. Mhmm.

Jesse: 34:25

And, hopefully, that's the sort of thing that with reflection and stuff, you can see that. Oh, hey. I signed up for this, and I committed to that and that and that and that, and then I had burnout. Maybe that can be an indicator going forward.

Trina: 34:38

Mhmm. Yeah. And I also had to cancel last week. This was scheduled for last week, and I had to move it to this week. And I used to never think about that.

Trina: 34:47

That was I didn't wanna let everyone down, and everyone was gonna be disappointed in me or whatever. That was that's been a hurdle to just be like, actually, I can't do this today. I can do it next week. And you know what? So far, it's worked out fine.

Trina: 35:02

That hasn't broken anybody. Everyone's still fine. Earth is still spinning. You can move things around on your calendar sometimes to accommodate for yourself. Like that Totally.

Trina: 35:12

That's normal. I think people do that. It's just harder for us sometimes. Mhmm.

Jesse: 35:19

Yeah. I I love that. I think that's a great spot to, wrap up. For people that want to follow you and see what you're doing online or whatever, where is the best place, for people to go?

Trina: 35:30

Yeah. You can find me at my lady ADHD on Instagram, my ladyadhd.com. It's a community for women with ADHD. I feel like it's mostly late diagnosed women. Also have a newsletter you can sign up for there.

Trina: 35:44

I think

Jesse: 35:45

that Awesome. That sounds great. And, Marie, how about you? Where can people connect with you online?

Marie: 35:50

So you can find me on Twitter. I'm at 3 hour coffee. That's 3 hour coffee spelled out or 4 words or at llama life. So lama life dot c o on the web. Where can people find you, Jesse?

Jesse: 36:04

Yeah. People can follow me online at ADHD, Jesse. I'm on all the platforms because I can't not sign up when I see a new platform. But mostly I'm on, threads and Instagram, I would say. And then my book, Extra Focus, can be found wherever books are found.

Jesse: 36:18

And my newsletter is also called Extra Focus, which is at extrafocus.com. So awesome. Thanks for being here, Trina. This was this is amazing.

Marie: 36:28

Yes. Thank you so much. Loved it.